Wildlife is Not a Selfie, with John Banovich

In this debut episode of On the Wild Edge, photographer and wildlife cinematographer John Banovich joins host Fairlie Ann Arrow and co-host Stacy James from Dazzle Africa for an unforgettable conversation about truth, coexistence, and the wild beings still holding on in the shadows of human expansion.
From intimate stories about a Grizzly named Mumf and a Caribou named Bruno, to real talk on the consequences of feeding bears, selfie culture, and ecological imbalance, this episode peels back the myths surrounding wildlife and urges us to reimagine how we share the planet.
Banovich, with three decades of filming across Canada’s wilderness, reveals what bears have taught him about resilience, solitude, and soul. But it’s also a call to action to slow down, protect migration corridors, and stop seeing wild animals as either threats or entertainment.
If you’ve ever wondered what it’s really like to stand face to face with a grizzly or what it might take to live in respectful coexistence, this conversation might just change the way you see your world.
Now Available: John Banovich’s First Coffee Table Book
A stunning visual journey through wild landscapes and rare wildlife encounters, this beautifully crafted book features over 25 years of John’s cinematic imagery. The first in a three-part series, it’s a celebration of nature, storytelling, and the art of coexistence.

• Available on Amazon. https://a.co/d/dfuWyMN
• Sheperd Sterling Publishing - https://www.shepherdsterling.com/banovich
• Check Out John's Vimeo Page here - http://www.vimeo.com/JohnBanovich
• If a safari is in your future...."you know it is" check out the number one safari outfitter on the planet that gives back -  https://www.dazzlesafaris.org

Transcript

[00:59:59:23 - 01:00:05:00]
John B
 There are no second takes. You either get it or you don't. It'll never happen again.

[01:00:05:00 - 01:01:41:20]
Fairlie
 director, cinematographer based out of the Canadian West Coast. He has directed two award-winning feature films. He's also directed award-winning documentaries, which we'll put in the show notes for you later to watch. He has three decades of expertise in filming natural history and wildlife in every province and territory in Canada. And he's in production of his Natural History documentary mini-series, "The Gentle Beast," which is about his encounters with all the different bear species.

[01:01:42:13 - 01:01:52:14]
Fairlie
 And just released on Amazon is the first of three incredibly inspiring beautiful books called "Banovich."

[01:01:53:10 - 01:01:59:07]
Fairlie
 Thank you so, so very much, John, for coming on our very, very first podcast.

[01:02:00:10 - 01:02:04:16]
John B
 I am welcomed and I'm honored. Thank you very much, Stacy and Fairlie for having me.

[01:02:04:16 - 01:02:17:07]
Fairlie
 always admired your work. Thank you. You really have the ability to capture the spirit and the soul of the animals.

[01:02:18:09 - 01:02:23:17]
Fairlie
 And one of those animals that I am particularly in love with is...

[01:02:23:17 - 01:04:55:14]
John B
 I'll caveat that by saying I have already in the works a documentary series, a natural history documentary series, that is focused just on the bear species here in Canada, the three primary bear species plus all the subsets. And my publisher over at Sheppard Sterling has decided that the second book we're doing in the trilogy will be just about bears. So there is a lot of interest, which is fantastic because, you know, I have, as you pointed out, a real passion for these animals. I've been exposed to them in the wild, in their natural habitat for the last three decades. And so I've chosen the title of the book as well as hopefully the documentary, "The Gentle Beasts," because they really are beautiful, compassionate, sensitive beings, but they're also very dangerous, as you pointed out, and, you know, making them sort of a beast, if you will. I want to break down that perception that these are savage animals that spot your little child from a kilometer away, come running down the hill and tear the door off of your camper to eat your baby's sets. That's just not the case. But I also want to dispel that myth that some of the factual reality type shows portray, which is, you know, here's our cameraman, our camera people five feet away from the bear and, oh, aren't they cute and cuddly? And, you know, that is a big problem too. And my wife, having formerly worked for the national parks here in Canada and having traveled to many of them and even filmed and photographed in several of them, we see this commonly with the public. Oh, I've got a leftover hamburger. You know, there's a cute little grizzly bear on the side of the road. Let's just, you know, be kind and feed it the leftover hamburger. Oh, and while I'm at it, hey, this is a great idea. I'll just put the burger out there like this. Where is it? And I'll photograph it, you know, taking this beautiful big animal, just photograph it, taking the burger out of my hand, and it never goes well. So, you know, when we analyze what's going on there, I have a lot of red flags. I'm very concerned about the well-being, obviously, of the people stopping on the road, but equally concerned about the bear, because the second that bear bites someone or causes any problems at all, they're going to most likely take the bear

[01:04:55:14 - 01:04:59:22]
John B
 Right, right. But that's just unnecessary and we can't have that.

[01:04:59:22 - 01:05:43:15]
Fairlie
 And I think that's the problem, right? Is that we, as humans, you know, we talk a lot about the human-wildlife conflict, but we as humans cause most of the problem because even though someone said to me the other day, oh, they sent me a really cute little video on TikTok the other day of these people at a donut store, every day they feed this raccoon donuts, and he comes out from the bush and he takes his donut and off he goes. But what people don't realize is what happens if that raccoon goes into somebody's yard looking for a donut and they don't happen to like raccoons, or the raccoon bites their kid, or…

[01:05:43:15 - 01:06:16:06]
Stacy
 I was just going to say it always surprises me. I think from all of us just being in tune with wildlife for a long time, it's a different level of awareness. And I'm always reminded of how much education is important in what we're talking about right now. So people understand there's a ripple effect in, you know, 99.99% of the time it's a negative one when we enter into that space and start manipulating the environment a little bit. Yeah.

[01:06:16:06 - 01:06:42:09]
Fairlie
 photograph I have of a bear that was pushed away by his mom when it was time for him to go out on his own. And he's, you know, he's this big gigantic grizzly bear, but he looks so sad, you know, and you just don't realize, I don't know, the power of a creature like that. And, you know, share with me what we were what you were saying about, you know, especially a bear like that, that has been pushed away.

[01:06:42:09 - 01:06:54:11]
John B
 It's necessary because it is part of the process. They have to leave the den. They have to go out and find themselves effectively. But in that process, usually at the end of the second year or into the third year,

[01:06:54:11 - 01:06:58:08]
John B
 those bears become agitated. They're confused.

[01:06:58:08 - 01:07:20:05]
John B
 alone. They're lost. There can be a dangerous situation that's been set up by just how that works in nature. And so for us as humans, we don't necessarily understand that behavior. And this is where I think education and information is critical, that

[01:07:20:05 - 01:07:52:07]
John B
 habitat belongs to them. We're going into their environment. When I go out there, there's a few bears that have encountered some of them for many years. And even though we have a bit of a relationship, I'm still very cautious to respect their space. I'm a guest and they may recognize my voice. They may recognize my smell, but still have to appreciate the fact that I'm encroaching on them and their behavior and their actions. It would be no different if someone came to my door that I didn't know,

[01:07:52:07 - 01:08:00:10]
John B
 know, I'm going to be cautious at all times. And so the young bear now is set out on their own, whether they're a male or female.

[01:08:00:10 - 01:08:21:20]
John B
 They have to figure out where do I belong in the pecking order and how am I going to survive? And, you know, mom doesn't want me anymore. And a lot of times that happens when moms, you know, back in the dating game again and, you know, she's ready to procreate. And she can't have the other one around while she's, you know, getting busy.

[01:08:23:13 - 01:08:58:08]
John B
 So poor, poor, you know, babies now at Juvenile and they're old enough to be on their own. You know, they've learned what they need to know about surviving, how to find food and how to approach it and how to survive a winter and how to den. They've got the fundamental tools to survive. So that's for me, that's been the most dangerous bear that I've encountered because they can be emotional. They can be very disoriented and confused and not sure, you know, mom dealt with the human being last time, but now I've got to deal with the human being on my own.

[01:08:59:08 - 01:09:12:05]
John B
 And it's not that they're necessarily aggressive, maybe more so defensive and not that they necessarily want to harm you, but they just don't know necessarily how to deal with the human being. And that's been my experience.

[01:09:12:05 - 01:09:19:00]
Fairlie
 about bears that drew you in so much that you wanted to spend, you know, 30 plus years

[01:09:19:00 - 01:09:32:01]
Fairlie
 their personality, their habits there? And oh, by the way, you are also studying, right, after all these years of working with wildlife, you are also studying now for

[01:09:32:01 - 01:09:35:08]
Fairlie
 right? For wildlife?

[01:09:35:08 - 01:09:36:16]
John B
 Yeah, I've been

[01:09:36:16 - 01:09:39:00]
Stacy
 away at it. For how many years, John?

[01:09:40:10 - 01:09:53:07]
John B
 Well, it's going to take a long time and I'm okay with that. You know, my family is the priority. That's great. You know, it is an interest though and bears really started out more as a fascination.

[01:09:54:13 - 01:09:55:14]
John B
 My best friend

[01:09:55:14 - 01:10:00:03]
John B
 is a wildlife biologist and a photographer as well,

[01:10:00:03 - 01:10:08:22]
John B
 photographer. And we were working on some of his shoots years and years ago and we would encounter bears. And

[01:10:08:22 - 01:10:18:17]
John B
 were always very cautious and that kind of piqued my interest and my brother being a forestry engineer and working in very remote parts of the province here in British Columbia.

[01:10:18:17 - 01:10:19:14]
John B
 That

[01:10:19:14 - 01:10:35:17]
John B
 another opportunity to be exposed to the bears, you know, in a close proximity. So it kind of raised an interest for me. And ultimately what happened was on several feature films, I ended up being the second unit

[01:10:35:17 - 01:10:37:18]
John B
 of photography and second unit director

[01:10:37:18 - 01:11:11:20]
John B
 with these specialty types of shots with bears and cougars and wolves. And it was always, well, you know, who wants to do it? Well, get John Banovich to do it because no one else will do it. So, all right, I'll do it. And then I go, you know, and they put a little electric fence up and they build a pen and we film these different with an animal wrangler. We film these different scenes. And what I observed, especially with the grizzly bears I was working with, is this type of behavior. There was a character to each bear. There was a personality and that opened Pandora's box, if you will, because

[01:11:11:20 - 01:11:30:02]
John B
 wanted more. I wanted to know more about them. And what I was finding was that grizzly bears really aren't that ferocious. Yes, they're dangerous, but they're not vicious killers. In fact, most of the time they don't even care I'm there. They don't. I keep my distance. I respect that space.

[01:11:30:02 - 01:11:42:01]
John B
 just get to know them. And it's spending time in their environment first so that they're comfortable and accepting of who I am and not being a threat to them in any way.

[01:11:42:01 - 01:11:44:13]
John B
 Really, you know, that's for me the biggest

[01:11:44:13 - 01:11:51:04]
John B
 that I'm using and observing them. And I'm not necessarily interested in those wild,

[01:11:51:04 - 01:12:10:00]
John B
 crazy over the top slow motion action shots. I mean, yes, they happen. But I'm more interested in, you know, what's their day to day behavior? How do they interact with the other species out here? How do they work the land and what's their interaction with the land and with each other? And how do they work as a team?

[01:12:11:00 - 01:12:13:18]
John B
 You know, watching two brothers bring down a moose

[01:12:13:18 - 01:12:37:17]
John B
 they were able to fend off the competitors and protect their kill. But at the same time, be able to share that moose. You know, hey, man, I get the rear hind. I'm going to drag that off into the bush. So, you know, you can chew on the front end of the carcass, but that's mine. That leg is mine. I'm dragging it off over here and leave me alone. You know, when I'm done eating, we can discuss who's going to get the head, that kind of thing.

[01:12:39:00 - 01:12:41:17]
John B
 I think it would make a fantastic animation.

[01:12:43:00 - 01:12:50:23]
John B
 In my head, I see these characters over time. I'm with them. I'm spending all this time and I'm going, hey, they have voices. You know, I can just imagine what they're saying to each other.

[01:12:52:00 - 01:13:05:02]
John B
 So there's these conversations, these little, you know, characters that I create. But they are distinct. No one bear is the same as the next bear. They may look very similar, but they're very distinct in their markings, in their scars,

[01:13:05:02 - 01:13:15:14]
John B
 in their behaviors, in their little habits that they have. And I can come back year after year, you know, you and I fairly were talking about this one particular large alpha

[01:13:15:14 - 01:13:21:08]
John B
 boar that I've encountered in the Northern Rockies. A few times, year after year, I call him Mumf.

[01:13:21:08 - 01:13:23:00]
Fairlie
 That's right.

[01:13:23:00 - 01:13:27:03]
John B
 Mumf. Yeah, Mumf. He just sort of, you know, he plops himself down. So like,

[01:13:29:01 - 01:13:57:20]
John B
 and it's just like, okay, if you wanted to destroy him, you absolutely could. But, you know, it's interesting when I show up years later because he'll lift his head, he'll lift his ears. Okay, it's you. Yeah, you're back because I recognize you and you're not a problem. And where the shots get really interesting is when somebody new shows up that he doesn't know. And he comes off of his mound. And I'm speaking about a particular incident that happened a few years ago where he had a stag, he had an elk

[01:13:57:20 - 01:14:37:22]
John B
 he brought down and buried and was protecting it. And it made for some really interesting moments where he was fending off the wolves in the morning and the young, you know, male grizzlies trying to sneak in on the action. And he, that poor guy was exhausted. I don't think he slept for three or four days. And he just, he, he perched himself in his eyes with clothes and he just sort of start dropping his head, dropping his head. He just slowly be going to sleep. And I'm going, oh man, dude, you must be tired. And then some noise would happen and, you know, something new would enter that environment. What's going on? Who are you? Okay, no, no, no, I come charging off his mound, chest out, you know, no, this is mine, go away.

[01:14:38:23 - 01:14:42:19]
John B
 And then he'd give me a little glance as you walk by like, oh yeah, you're okay, you're still here.

[01:14:42:19 - 01:14:53:18]
Fairlie
 think about what they deal with. And there, I don't know how many people really sit back and think about what does that animal deal with day to day just to survive.

[01:14:53:18 - 01:14:55:22]
John B
 And could we do it as human beings?

[01:14:55:22 - 01:14:57:04]
Stacy
 Yeah, we'd be exhausted.

[01:14:57:04 - 01:15:01:08]
Fairlie
 What do bears bring to the environment? What are the importance, right?

[01:15:01:08 - 01:15:40:15]
John B
 Yeah, it's all part of the ecosystem. So they are at the very high end of the food chain. You know, they're a predator animal so that they help clean up. There's a very important part for them in that hierarchy. And when you remove bears from it, the system becomes unbalanced. It doesn't function very well. And so this is where, you know, in the past we've seen how man has intervened. Okay, we have too many wolves. Let's call the wolves. But the question we have to start to ask is what have we done to that environment as a species, as human beings, not individually, but as a species? What have we done to that environment that's caused this?

[01:15:41:15 - 01:15:48:14]
John B
 Roads, mines, you know, industrial landscape, human encroachment, all of that.

[01:15:48:14 - 01:16:01:14]
Stacy
 Hey, John, can you give an example of the imbalance? Like what's an example that might come to mind that could help people visualize what is an imbalance that you notice and what's the effect of it?

[01:16:01:14 - 01:16:20:20]
John B
 So, and thank you for that question because that's a really touchy subject. But the caribou up here are ones that I've observed, especially the woodland caribou in the southern part of the province. And again, leaking into a small portion of Montana and Idaho and Washington State

[01:16:20:20 - 01:16:22:11]
John B
 across into Alberta.

[01:16:23:19 - 01:16:26:10]
John B
 And over the years, I've observed herds disappearing.

[01:16:27:12 - 01:16:47:10]
John B
 And it's sad because for me, out of all the ungulates, the caribou are my favorite. There's eyes are big and you can look into their souls. I love that about them. I had formed a really unique relationship with a bull up on the Highway 40 in Alberta.

[01:16:47:10 - 01:16:47:22]
John B
 name was Bruno.

[01:16:48:23 - 01:16:54:12]
John B
 And I didn't name him. That was what the locals called him, the Aboriginal, the Native people.

[01:16:54:12 - 01:16:55:09]
John B
 And

[01:16:55:09 - 01:17:03:03]
John B
 was sad a couple of years ago that he got hit by a truck, a speeding truck. And then two weeks later, his son,

[01:17:03:03 - 01:17:09:08]
John B
 was hit by a truck. And I have a picture of the two of them together on a hillside, a little ways from the highway there.

[01:17:09:08 - 01:17:16:18]
John B
 And that was tough because Bruno and I had established a relationship over years, much like Mump, the grizzly bear,

[01:17:16:18 - 01:17:35:19]
John B
 where I would show up and he'd actually come out of the woods, come over and greet me. And I just loved, I mean, he posed. He was, you know, for a photographer and a filmmaker, he was the best caribou you could possibly ask for. Here comes Bruno and, you know, hey, look at me.

[01:17:37:03 - 01:17:44:09]
John B
 How you doing? Just wait a minute. I'm going to put my front hoof up here and all this stuff. And you ready?

[01:17:46:20 - 01:18:21:00]
John B
 And he posed. And I got great photos of him and great footage of him. And, you know, he was just wonderful to work with. And that's such a rare opportunity. And again, that was just years and years of years of culminating a relationship. But I wasn't the only one. I mean, there was some folks up there who worked with the caribou patrol who had built unique relationships with him. And it was sad to see him go. And that is where that human encroachment is a big problem. You know, we've got a highway right through their migration path. And

[01:18:21:06 - 01:18:23:20]
John B
 nothing on the highway. There aren't any residents,

[01:18:23:20 - 01:18:33:14]
John B
 And then the big trucks move there. The 18 wheelers move through there to haul materials. You know, I'm not saying we remove the highway. That's not the solution. And,

[01:18:33:16 - 01:19:00:11]
John B
 our federal government has taken a very extreme way of addressing this, which is, well, we're just going to kick all the farmers and industry off altogether. And that will solve the problem. But it won't because the highway remains. It's got a very high speed limit on it. And that remains. And so many of us are trying to petition whatever authorities, not necessarily just the federal government, but then any authority willing to listen to reduce the speed limit. Let's get that speed limit down.

[01:19:00:11 - 01:19:01:04]
John B
 Let's

[01:19:01:04 - 01:19:01:20]
John B
 put some resources,

[01:19:01:20 - 01:19:05:22]
John B
 funded resources like law enforcement out there and

[01:19:05:22 - 01:19:06:15]
John B
 sure that

[01:19:06:15 - 01:19:07:22]
John B
 speed limits, you

[01:19:07:22 - 01:19:12:03]
John B
 monitored and followed. And we can we can see the,

[01:19:12:03 - 01:19:25:04]
John B
 the huge advantages through many of the national parks where they've brought in speed zones in areas that are known to have Rocky Mountain, bighorn sheep, for example, or mountain goats or elk, Roosevelt elk,

[01:19:25:04 - 01:19:27:13]
John B
 or mule deer. And, you know, that's a scary thing

[01:19:27:13 - 01:19:41:01]
John B
 me in my years of doing this work, you know, having a cow moose and her calf come out at sundown in front of you. You're doing 100 kilometers an hour. And and so, you know, over time, you get familiar with where these areas are

[01:19:41:01 - 01:19:47:11]
John B
 you get familiar with their cycles, the birthing cycle and, you know, those poor little gangly moose. It can barely stand up.

[01:19:47:11 - 01:19:55:21]
John B
 last thing I want to do is hit one of them. I mean, that's detrimental not only to my work, but to what I believe. So I'm very aware of it.

[01:19:55:21 - 01:19:56:17]
John B
 need to

[01:19:56:17 - 01:20:09:11]
John B
 as a society in a way that we can coexist with all of these animals. There are steps being taken, but it's very slow. And it's not always necessarily the best steps,

[01:20:09:11 - 01:20:16:07]
John B
 most cost effective steps. And we have to look at the results to, as I say, slowing down as a big one.

[01:20:17:12 - 01:20:18:01]
Stacy
 even,

[01:20:18:01 - 01:20:19:06]
Stacy
 here in,

[01:20:19:06 - 01:20:20:12]
Stacy
 know, pretty rural Kansas,

[01:20:20:12 - 01:20:34:05]
Stacy
 there are like you were saying, John, there's certain areas where we know that we need to slow down because just because we live here and we see the populations coming through. A lot of people just,

[01:20:34:05 - 01:20:39:09]
Stacy
 go way too fast, but there's no signs up. And so we've been talking about in our area,

[01:20:39:09 - 01:20:56:05]
Stacy
 out to some of the insurance companies because we're like, how much money is going out the door right now, in addition to loss of wildlife, in addition to harming people, you know, when they're hitting. I mean, we have so many deer here.

[01:20:56:05 - 01:21:02:19]
Fairlie
 constructed Wallace Annenberg Wildlife Crossing. I think it's going to be finished in 2025, but it crosses.

[01:21:02:19 - 01:21:05:15]
Fairlie
 one oh one coming into Los Angeles.

[01:21:05:15 - 01:21:09:02]
Fairlie
 So thank you Wallace Annenberg. That's pretty awesome.

[01:21:10:13 - 01:21:24:12]
Fairlie
 But according to the Department of Fish and Wildlife here in California, over the last several years, we have lost on average of one to two cougars a week trying to cross the road and being hit by cars.

[01:21:25:19 - 01:21:27:10]
Fairlie
 Hopefully this is going to make a big difference.

[01:21:27:10 - 01:21:29:13]
John B
 It's a heavy impact on that population.

[01:21:30:21 - 01:21:40:02]
Fairlie
 And we know that education is so incredibly important. And what's happening between community and wildlife here

[01:21:40:02 - 01:21:40:07]
Fairlie
 recently,

[01:21:40:07 - 01:21:42:08]
Fairlie
 A cougar came out of the forest,

[01:21:42:08 - 01:21:44:12]
Fairlie
 and attacked somebody and killed them

[01:21:44:12 - 01:21:45:22]
Fairlie
 horrible. But,

[01:21:45:22 - 01:22:04:04]
Fairlie
 the sad thing is it was the cougars home, those hills, and now he's dead. So I guess the question is, you know, all the trials and everything that we're very fortunate to be allowed to hike on and bike on and enjoy.

[01:22:05:07 - 01:22:14:23]
Fairlie
 You know, maybe they belong to the wildlife and we should respect that and give some of those areas back. And that's a great question. I don't know. I'm just saying.

[01:22:14:23 - 01:22:25:20]
John B
 You bring up a really valid point there. And I give credit to Alberta, the Alberta government and Alberta Fish and Wildlife.

[01:22:27:07 - 01:22:32:13]
John B
 Because what they try to do is capture the disruptive bears and relocate them.

[01:22:33:18 - 01:22:40:21]
John B
 Now, in the case of the grizzly bears, for example, a lot of them will travel hundreds of kilometers to go back to their domain because that is their domain.

[01:22:41:21 - 01:22:49:04]
John B
 There's an area in Alberta I like to call Alcatraz. It is. It's where the bad bears go.

[01:22:50:07 - 01:23:17:16]
John B
 And unfortunately, what happens in some cases is the young bears get beat up pretty bad, you know, if they're a bad bear. And I'm joking about that because really, I don't see it as a bad bear. Every bear can have a bad day just like a human being can have a bad day. So, you know, you catch them on a bad day or you leave the grains out or, you know, you've got young calves. Well, I mean, be honest, you know,

[01:23:18:18 - 01:23:35:01]
John B
 not me personally, but if somebody left a Big Mac sitting on the front porch, you know, the tendency might be to go grab that Big Mac and eat it. I don't eat Big Macs. But maybe a bad example. But I like what you were talking about, too,

[01:23:36:21 - 01:23:45:10]
John B
 Stacy, the idea of getting an insurance company's involved. That's a great idea because you make a valid point. Think about all the damage that's caused to vehicles.

[01:23:46:11 - 01:24:02:03]
John B
 And, you know, there's a deductible, but ultimately it's the insurance companies that are, you know, forking out a pocket. So would it make more sense to build wildlife corridors? And we've got them up here on our Trans Canada Highway, on our national highway that goes coast to coast to

[01:24:02:03 - 01:24:04:14]
John B
 are these bridges, huge.

[01:24:04:14 - 01:25:12:15]
John B
 they're massive projects to undertake, but they work. They're effective. The animals, you know, they're fenced off. They can't cross the freeway anywhere in the Banff National Park, Lake Louise National Park, most of the Kootenays National Park. And they've put these huge wide overpasses in and they've put soil. They've tried to build the best representation of that habitat. So the animals will feel comfortable going through it. So there's plant, you know, there's fauna, there's fola. They've brought in plant life. They've brought in soils and rocks and tried to create some kind of a path that seems symbiotic to the environment and that habitat. And kudos to them for doing that because it's a step, in my personal opinion, is a step in the right direction. There are places where they put small tunnels underneath the highway for some of the smaller creatures, the rodents, for example, and some of the amphibians that wouldn't use that overpass. And they're trying very hard to mimic a natural setting. But how effective it is, is, you gain a big question because there's always animals that jump the fence and

[01:25:12:15 - 01:25:31:15]
John B
 I've intentionally stopped to film them because to me it still is, and photographed them because it still is at large an issue that has to be reviewed. And there has to be more technology put into this because we do end up with onulates still jumping the fence and bears getting through the fence. I mean, if a grizzly bear wants to get

[01:25:31:15 - 01:25:32:19]
John B
 they will.

[01:25:32:19 - 01:25:34:03]
Stacy
 going?

[01:25:35:04 - 01:25:39:10]
Stacy
 What encourages you? What keeps you curious

[01:25:39:10 - 01:25:43:17]
Stacy
 decades or more?

[01:25:43:17 - 01:25:50:18]
Stacy
 I'm curious, what keeps you moving in this direction and deepening your experience and sharing it with all of us?

[01:25:51:19 - 01:25:56:18]
John B
 What keeps me going is just the love of being out there. This is interesting because I find

[01:25:56:18 - 01:25:59:15]
John B
 solitude of peace.

[01:25:59:15 - 01:26:08:21]
John B
 am absorbed. I'm grounded. I'm absorbed into that. There's a spirit of calm and relaxation.

[01:26:08:21 - 01:26:14:06]
John B
 There's no whiskey or tequila shot under the sun that'll give you that ever. You

[01:26:14:06 - 01:26:19:06]
John B
 is living. I'm alive.

[01:26:20:13 - 01:26:26:12]
John B
 And that to me is the addiction, you know, and I hate to say it, but it is a bit of an addiction.

[01:26:27:15 - 01:26:33:07]
John B
 I'd love to retire in an old log cabin in the middle of nowhere. Just leave me alone. And, you know, my ideal neighbors

[01:26:33:07 - 01:26:39:13]
John B
 Mr. Moose, Mr. Bear, Mr. Elk, Mr. Caremoose, Mr. Waffering.

[01:26:40:14 - 01:26:50:15]
John B
 I'd be happy to have Mumps as a neighbor. He's a great character. You know, hey, Mumps, you know, good morning. Okay.

[01:26:53:08 - 01:26:54:15]
John B
 I got it. Got it.

[01:26:54:15 - 01:27:56:15]
John B
 children too, I think this has been an education that they're not going to get in any traditional setting that they've been exposed to this, both through the work that my wife did and the work that I do. And they spent a lot of time out there. You know, my daughters and my son both have taken the camera in their hands and a little bit like you fairly, where your son kind of chased in that direction as well. And it's an education for them because they understand both the beauty and the harshness that exists out there. You know, what the real world is. It's not this 15 minute city that we live in. It is untamed. I mean, you know, the water is cold, but it should taste great. I'll tell you, I drink that natural water all the time. And, you know, food's hard to come by out there, but it does exist. You know, nature provides. It does exist. And the mountains, they look beautiful, but boy, they are hard to climb.

[01:27:57:16 - 01:28:06:11]
John B
 You know, they've learned that too. We've been on top of the Rockies and it's an experience that they can go back and share with their friends and classmates.

[01:28:07:12 - 01:28:45:14]
John B
 And now all of a sudden they've got, you know, they everybody goes to Disneyland or Disney World or Hawaii or Cancun. And, you know, they share those stories and it's like, oh, isn't that sweet? Isn't that nice? But my children get to go back and share. I was with my dad and we were, you know, a hundred meters away from this big grizzly. And then we saw this huge herd of elk. And then we went over to the mountains. We saw the mountain goats up high in the alpine. And then we had a four wheel. We had to climb up. We had a hike up to the peak. And I could see for 200 kilometers in every direction, all the peaks of the Rockies and all the glaciers and they're blue and they crack. And, you know, they have this whole experience to get to share

[01:28:46:01 - 01:28:51:12]
Stacy
 I love that just when you're out there, you're able to experience what is.

[01:28:51:18 - 01:29:44:08]
John B
 I've got a really neat shot. And I'll hold this. My son was with me. This was quite a few years ago. And we just we were entertained. It was better than anything you'd ever see in National Geographic or BBC because it's right in front of us unfolding. So there's a black bear and a young bull caribou on this glacial washout up in the northern Rockies. And it's such a cool clip because I filmed the whole thing in slow motion and I wish I had more than one camera. I wish I even had the drone up for it because it was such a cool encounter. This, you know, here comes the black bear and here comes the caribou and they've got 350 meters, 400 meters of expanse open rocky area to cross. No, no, they have to cross right in front of each other. You know, they've got all this space either way they can go and they get about 10, 15 meters from each other and they stop and they look at each other and they're just staring at each other.

[01:29:45:09 - 01:30:05:08]
John B
 And my son's going, Daddy, what do you think is going to happen? You think the bear is going to go after the caribou? I said, I don't know. I don't know. Let's just watch. I mean, you know, this is like a Mexican standoff. They're just they're staring at each other down. And the bear let out a bit of a breath and the caribou flinched and they both ran the opposite way.

[01:30:06:09 - 01:30:21:12]
John B
 Just just like full on sprinting in opposite directions. It was beautiful. And of course, you know, the caribou is tucked down behind one of the washouts kind of poking his head up going, OK, where's the bear? And the bear is kind of hiding behind the rocks going, what just happened?

[01:30:22:22 - 01:30:25:21]
John B
 What? I'm a bear like that's not what you know.

[01:30:25:21 - 01:30:28:08]
Fairlie
 What just happened? And I hope no other bear saw me. That's right. That's right.

[01:30:28:08 - 01:30:42:06]
John B
 They know, you know, we're up on the hillside over here on the edge edge of the cliff with the camera on them. But that was just a brilliant moment. And it was a cool experience for my son because, you know, that's ingrained into his memory for life now. Yeah.

[01:30:42:06 - 01:30:44:07]
Stacy
 And we got to observe this like

[01:30:44:12 - 01:31:00:17]
John B
 a hundred years ago, this wasn't a big deal. Like a lot of our youth, you know, our grandparents and great grandparents had that experience, but it's not common anymore. So I think it's valuable because what it does for them at least is reintroduce

[01:31:00:17 - 01:31:11:13]
John B
 the natural history, to what is the fact, the factual world, what is. And those are the ones that are going to have an impact, I hope, on the future of our environment.

[01:31:11:13 - 01:31:15:05]
Fairlie
 inspiration behind the book?

[01:31:15:05 - 01:31:16:21]
John B
 Well, I want to share.

[01:31:17:07 - 01:31:35:04]
John B
 even if they can't go out there and be in the same location necessarily that I was in or to that extreme. I want them to build, engage. I want them to start to feel. I don't know if that sounds right, but, you know, let the emotions out. Let's experience.

[01:31:36:08 - 01:32:00:11]
John B
 Let's get lost in the image for a minute and experience a moment in time. Right. That's that's real. This isn't made up. This is like I said earlier, I'm not adding in layers of clouds or or putting in animals that aren't there or, you know, cutting it all up and pasting it all together, doing composites or any of that. I'm not running it through an AI processor. What you see is what really is. And I want

[01:32:00:11 - 01:32:19:13]
John B
 to be able to share that, you know, it is the natural world. And it is something that is necessary for our existence. So how else can we do this through film and through photography? And, you know, I just like I say, I'm blown away. I'm blessed that Neil and Sherry Silvert, Shepard Sterling

[01:32:19:13 - 01:32:28:07]
John B
 so passionately about my work that they're willing to take this path. And it, you know, initially it's three books, you know, and and we start with

[01:32:28:07 - 01:32:50:07]
John B
 book, which is sort of a little bit of everything. And we focus on bears in the second one. I'm excited about that, too, because, you know, let's dispel some of those myths. And then we get into the third one, which is all about creation. It's all about, you know, what's out there, the vastness of it, the beauty of it, the boldness of it. You know, the sunsets, the sunrises, the glaciers,

[01:32:51:16 - 01:33:00:21]
John B
 the ice, you know, how it all happens, the geological formations. I mean, there's art in nature if we're willing to stop and look for it.

[01:33:00:21 - 01:33:10:18]
Fairlie
 for people to see your books because honestly, John, your work is awesome. And the way you capture

[01:33:10:18 - 01:33:19:07]
Fairlie
 these animals and the landscapes and everything, but you know, I'm a huge grizzly fan. And the way you capture some of these bears, it's awesome.

[01:33:19:07 - 01:33:23:13]
Fairlie
 these are going to be coffee table pieces, and I'm so excited for people to see them.

[01:33:23:13 - 01:33:42:08]
Fairlie
 you. So, you know, I think that we do have a responsibility as filmmakers and as photographers with our work. And you know, how we present these animals. And I think in a lot of cases, we have such, there is such a skewed view out there about wildlife

[01:33:42:21 - 01:33:52:21]
Fairlie
 We see it time and time again when people go to the park and they want to get a selfie with a moose or a bear and they turn their back on the animal. What could go wrong with that?

[01:33:52:21 - 01:33:56:05]
Fairlie
 You know, how do we help stop that kind of behavior?

[01:33:56:05 - 01:34:00:15]
Fairlie
 these kids, how do we teach people to have respect for wildlife?

[01:34:00:15 - 01:34:06:15]
John B
 we we have to, it goes back to understanding and respect.

[01:34:07:16 - 01:34:14:18]
John B
 And those people, those people just need to be excused, you know, sorry, we're going to revoke your, your card, your admittance card, don't come back.

[01:34:15:19 - 01:34:19:04]
John B
 Because that's, you know, we're going the wrong way.

[01:34:20:06 - 01:34:52:12]
John B
 That's we've been down this path, we know it doesn't work. It has to go the other way. And I think national parks, this is what I believe at least anyways is that national parks are a great way state parks, provincial parks, national parks, territorial parks, that are set up with certain safety measures already put in place are a great way to to experience this without being subject to the harshness and the extremes of those remote situations that all of us put ourselves in.

[01:34:53:19 - 01:35:24:21]
John B
 And we're all in different positions, but what's great is that we share this common passion, this common love. And so it's a little bit different. What we get to do is spoon feed them. We get to go up there and engage that danger on the front lines and bring back the goods and spoon feed it to them. And our audiences get to experience it without having any major threat or danger.

[01:35:26:03 - 01:35:44:20]
John B
 So that's one method. The other method, as they say, is the parks. The parks that are set up by federal governments, provincial governments, state governments, state governments, and being able to engage. And again, I love the fact that my daughter and I can go for a walk and we can encounter 20, 30, 40, 50 other people in that same local park.

[01:35:46:01 - 01:36:06:02]
John B
 And in that process, there's an owl, there's an eagle, squirrels, chipmunks, beavers, they're at your fingertips. And as long as it goes back to respect, as long as we respect the fact that this is their habitat leave them alone, because habitualizing any wild animals is absolutely wrong.

[01:36:06:12 - 01:36:15:10]
John B
 It's like giving drugs, illicit drugs, eventually you become addicted to it. And that's what you want. I mean, the old saying, the first one's always free.

[01:36:16:19 - 01:36:28:12]
John B
 To some degree, but it's true. To some degree that applies to our wildlife too, right? You start and they're going to want more. I mean, those big macs are addicting and they're going to want more.

[01:36:29:14 - 01:36:30:19]
John B
 Why should I have to go hunt

[01:36:30:19 - 01:36:41:16]
John B
 little furry critters for a meal when the humans are just going to bring it to me? Well, I'm going to go over to the car. Hey, buddy, bang, bang, bang, bang. Oh, you lost your mirror. I don't care. Give me food.

[01:36:41:16 - 01:36:48:00]
John B
 Well, this guy doesn't want to give you food, but I don't know that. I'm a bear. The last guy gave me food, so you're going to give me food.

[01:36:49:06 - 01:36:54:17]
John B
 And we have to be so careful. And this is, again, that interaction

[01:36:54:17 - 01:36:57:10]
John B
 a safe distance. Just observe.

[01:36:57:10 - 01:36:59:03]
John B
 They're not pets.

[01:36:59:03 - 01:37:09:14]
John B
 And with that, this podcast, for example, is fantastic because now we're having this discussion about how do we make sure the general public understands

[01:37:09:14 - 01:37:14:08]
John B
 awaiting them. It's beautiful. It's magnificent. It's incredible.

[01:37:14:08 - 01:37:35:00]
John B
 Go way out there, take your shoes off, feel the ground, feel the wind in your face. Let the sun down on you, man. I mean, and when it rains, that's okay too. And when it snows, that's okay too because it's real. But at the same time, know full well that that's a harsh environment. You're not in Kansas anymore. No pun intended, Stacy.

[01:37:35:00 - 01:37:38:03]
Stacy
 Oh, God. I'm strong as some of us are.

[01:37:40:17 - 01:38:10:08]
John B
 Well, I have. It's been a long time since I've been in Kansas. But it's one of those approaches, I suppose, that's really important that all of us remember when we're, you know, you're right. We do have a bit of a responsibility fairly that we have to be able to present the honest truth to the general public. And that can be hard to do, right? I mean, broadcasters want, where's the excitement? You know, where's the action?

[01:38:10:23 - 01:38:12:03]
John B
 They wanted

[01:38:12:03 - 01:38:18:08]
John B
 more of an entertainment type of product. And I'm just not willing to compromise.

[01:38:18:08 - 01:38:23:00]
Stacy
 I love that you're not willing to compromise. I love that, John.

[01:38:24:06 - 01:38:33:18]
Stacy
 That's unique, I think, in the world that we live in right now and super important and refreshing and helps people keep grounded in what is.

[01:38:35:02 - 01:38:36:08]
Stacy
 So thank you for

[01:38:36:08 - 01:38:46:21]
John B
 not compromising. You're welcome. But I mean, you don't need to thank me because it just needs to be, right? And I would encourage all photographers and filmmakers to take that path. Don't compromise.

[01:38:47:22 - 01:39:07:08]
John B
 You know, like you pointed out, both of you pointed out, we have a responsibility. So we need to take that seriously and present our material in that way because we're doing a disservice otherwise. You know, I don't like the term disinformation or misinformation. To me, it's blatantly simple. It's black and white. It's wrong information.

[01:39:08:12 - 01:39:16:17]
John B
 You know, at the core of it, I mean, you live or you die out there, right? At the core of it. And that is sort of the scary factor.

[01:39:17:23 - 01:39:31:09]
John B
 I don't want to speak for you, but I know with myself, there are times when that little bit of danger is not such a bad thing. It's one of those, you know, prick yourself. I'm alive. Wow. Keeps us on our toes. Totally.

[01:39:33:06 - 01:39:34:05]
Stacy
 The heart is beating.

[01:39:35:08 - 01:39:44:03]
John B
 And this is for me, I guess, where the sad element is the day will come when I can't do this anymore. You know, and I know that I try to be very realistic about it.

[01:39:45:08 - 01:40:06:09]
John B
 It'll come for all of us. But there's also the flip side of that. Look at the body work that I leave behind and look at the impact, hopefully, that it's had in a positive way. So here we are trying to move forward in this way together. And it's fantastic. Let's bring in the troops.

[01:40:08:00 - 01:40:17:11]
Fairlie
 I think there does seem to be a younger generation that maybe, you know, ready to pick up the baton, you know, and run with it,

[01:40:17:11 - 01:40:18:21]
Fairlie
 who care a little bit more about

[01:40:18:21 - 01:40:19:13]
Fairlie
 wildlife,

[01:40:19:13 - 01:40:22:15]
Fairlie
 our animal buddies who live with us

[01:40:22:15 - 01:40:23:04]
Fairlie
 maybe

[01:40:23:04 - 01:40:24:12]
Fairlie
 our generation

[01:40:24:12 - 01:40:25:17]
Fairlie
 done.

[01:40:25:17 - 01:40:27:19]
Fairlie
 I mean, what do you see as the future of our wildlife?

[01:40:27:19 - 01:40:31:12]
Stacy
 I think that we will hit more,

[01:40:32:21 - 01:40:36:10]
Stacy
 unfortunately, more of a tipping point where we're going to have to make

[01:40:36:10 - 01:40:37:20]
Stacy
 bigger decisions around

[01:40:37:20 - 01:40:42:20]
Stacy
 we going to step in and learn how to coexist?

[01:40:42:20 - 01:40:45:20]
Stacy
 I do think that if,

[01:40:45:20 - 01:40:48:09]
Stacy
 John, what you were just saying about getting out into nature,

[01:40:48:09 - 01:40:56:20]
Stacy
 hard to care about nature when we have lots of population that doesn't experience a lot of nature.

[01:40:56:20 - 01:41:05:05]
Stacy
 It's hard to even know what you're missing, or even that it's out there, or it's so far out on the edge of that normal day for most people.

[01:41:05:05 - 01:41:08:09]
Stacy
 So I think a very,

[01:41:08:09 - 01:41:10:13]
Stacy
 the word that comes to me is steadfast.

[01:41:12:10 - 01:41:14:10]
Stacy
 I think there will be a steadfast movement.

[01:41:16:00 - 01:41:23:13]
Stacy
 And unfortunately, I feel like we're going to have some tragedies with our wildlife. And then in some areas, I feel like we're going to have some wins.

[01:41:23:13 - 01:41:33:08]
Stacy
 when we come out of that, we'll have a bigger heart for what we actually want. And I think that overall, people are going to be appreciative of

[01:41:33:08 - 01:41:40:18]
Stacy
 and wildlife at a larger level. And sadly, I don't think we've hit that tipping point yet.

[01:41:40:18 - 01:41:44:03]
Stacy
 I think it's going to be

[01:41:44:03 - 01:41:44:08]
Stacy
 a couple of decades.

[01:41:45:12 - 01:41:54:22]
Stacy
 And I think that the core mass people that we have right now hopefully grows. And we create a steadiness where it's not swinging from left to right, but it's

[01:41:54:22 - 01:41:58:19]
Stacy
 middle ground that we've talked about, John, that you talked about,

[01:41:58:19 - 01:42:12:14]
Stacy
 together in the middle to create things that work for all species. And it is possible, right? It's just going to take a little bit difference in thinking, a little bit different looking at things, observing things in a different way. But

[01:42:12:14 - 01:42:16:21]
Stacy
 think for most things, the middle way is probably going to be a win for

[01:42:16:21 - 01:42:17:23]
Stacy
 of us.

[01:42:19:11 - 01:42:22:08]
Stacy
 But it's a little wavy right now, a little bit of a roller coaster.

[01:42:23:10 - 01:42:25:19]
John B
 I love where

[01:42:25:19 - 01:42:29:02]
John B
 this because it's so true. I have a distant cousin

[01:42:29:02 - 01:42:35:06]
John B
 here just across the border in Washington state, just outside of Seattle. His name's John Banovich.

[01:42:35:06 - 01:42:44:04]
John B
 There's something in the name. I kid you not. He's a wildlife painter, a very infamous wildlife painter, just stunning work.

[01:42:44:04 - 01:43:08:06]
John B
 He introduced me to an idea many, many years ago, an idea of balance. What you were working towards there, Stacy, is this idea that I live in a house made of wood. So I drive a car made of steel. And whether it's a car made out of batteries, which have to be mined, or whether it's burning petroleum, which has to be pumped from the ground, no matter what, we have to extract

[01:43:08:06 - 01:43:09:04]
John B
 the resources

[01:43:09:04 - 01:43:12:02]
John B
 need to exist from the earth.

[01:43:12:02 - 01:43:28:21]
John B
 it's wrong for me to say, well, don't chop down trees anymore. It's wrong for I'd be a hypocrite. In fact, most of the world right now, I believe, is in this hypocritical state where we are lying to ourselves. That's what I believe. And I say that because it's easy enough to go out there into these

[01:43:28:21 - 01:43:37:20]
John B
 biospheres in these different habitats and see the amount of devastation that man has created without any recourse.

[01:43:38:21 - 01:43:43:10]
John B
 And it can't happen that way. As you pointed out, Stacy, we're going to go, the pendulum is going to

[01:43:43:10 - 01:43:45:09]
John B
 swing that way. I

[01:43:45:09 - 01:43:51:07]
John B
 It's going to have to come back. It will. Depopulation of the human species is not the answer either.

[01:43:51:07 - 01:43:52:00]
John B
 All these

[01:43:52:00 - 01:43:52:20]
John B
 up

[01:43:52:20 - 01:43:58:14]
John B
 people that are preaching this, it's easy for them to say that because they're not the ones that are depopulating.

[01:43:58:14 - 01:44:06:18]
John B
 So that is not the answer either. And coexistence, which is something that has brought all three of us together, is what I believe, and I'm sure

[01:44:06:18 - 01:44:12:16]
John B
 find some common ground with me on this, is that that is the critical point to this.

[01:44:14:02 - 01:44:16:12]
John B
 The idea fairly of what you're talking about is maybe we

[01:44:16:12 - 01:44:19:09]
Stacy
 John, what you were just saying about getting out into nature,

[01:44:19:09 - 01:44:30:09]
John B
 put aside sanctuaries. And interesting enough, there are a few of those here already in Canada. They're hard to get to, first of all. But they're animal sanctuaries, which

[01:44:30:09 - 01:44:33:12]
John B
 one specifically for the grizzly bear on the coast.

[01:44:33:12 - 01:44:38:14]
John B
 And it is a very difficult place to get to. It's very hard to even be allowed to go in there.

[01:44:38:14 - 01:44:40:01]
John B
 it's because it's magnificent.

[01:44:40:01 - 01:44:45:05]
John B
 So that might be continuing down that path. That might be part of the solution.

[01:44:45:05 - 01:44:56:14]
John B
 Bringing back, I still believe that the First Nations have a lot to offer us in their traditional what methods. They've lost a lot of that. And I don't necessarily believe that

[01:44:56:14 - 01:44:57:12]
John B
 are equipped

[01:44:57:12 - 01:45:04:17]
John B
 to deal with that currently. But some of them are working back towards understanding their origins.

[01:45:04:17 - 01:45:07:06]
John B
 to survive on these lands.

[01:45:08:09 - 01:45:17:20]
John B
 And they managed to coexist quite comfortably with those animals. So maybe we need to take a step back and look at what they did and how they did it.

[01:45:17:20 - 01:45:25:22]
John B
 This consumerism, the greed and the pride that drives consumerism is so deadly and dangerous. It's dark.

[01:45:25:22 - 01:45:37:03]
John B
 I'm a big fan of just wearing the same old shirt. I don't need the latest fashion. I don't need the latest vehicle. I don't care if the Joneses or whoever,

[01:45:37:03 - 01:45:51:08]
John B
 the Gomez's across the street have the newest Nike runners. Who cares? I don't need it. Not only is it bad for our environment, because most of it ends up in landfill polluting the earth, but

[01:45:51:08 - 01:45:57:04]
John B
 it bad for me? So we have to start with ourselves. This is what I believe.

[01:45:57:04 - 01:46:10:09]
John B
 There's an awakening happening. And coming back to what you were saying, Stacey, I think people are waking up. What have we been sold? What have we been... What's this propaganda, this commercialization?

[01:46:10:09 - 01:46:11:16]
John B
 Are we more than

[01:46:11:16 - 01:46:21:05]
John B
 at a trough eating whatever's dumped in there? We should be. So what's good for us? And start with ourselves.

[01:46:21:05 - 01:46:22:21]
John B
 to

[01:46:22:21 - 01:46:24:09]
John B
 environment clean.

[01:46:24:09 - 01:46:25:16]
John B
 I fund

[01:46:25:16 - 01:46:26:13]
John B
 largest

[01:46:26:13 - 01:46:28:12]
John B
 wildlife preserve up here

[01:46:28:12 - 01:46:29:05]
John B
 Canada,

[01:46:29:05 - 01:46:33:11]
John B
 And it's phenomenal what they've been able to create there.

[01:46:33:11 - 01:46:41:22]
John B
 be dead frozen and you're thinking, "There's nothing moving around. I mean, it's ice and snow and minus 20." You can walk in there and still see

[01:46:41:22 - 01:46:48:05]
John B
 different bird species and the elk, the different ungulates. It's fantastic what they've done independently.

[01:46:49:11 - 01:46:51:16]
John B
 This is just from people like us getting involved.

[01:46:53:03 - 01:46:56:21]
John B
 do think there's hope. I think we've got a ways to go. I really believe that.

[01:46:57:19 - 01:47:03:22]
John B
 What I do know for sure is that if we don't speak out, nothing's going to happen.

[01:47:03:22 - 01:47:05:00]
Stacy
 I read a quote,

[01:47:05:00 - 01:47:09:18]
Stacy
 "Difficult takes time. Impossible takes longer."

[01:47:12:02 - 01:47:12:13]
Stacy
 Right.

[01:47:14:01 - 01:47:17:12]
Stacy
 Right? It just takes a while.

[01:47:18:17 - 01:47:18:22]
Fairlie
 Yeah.

[01:47:18:22 - 01:47:20:22]
Fairlie
 As long as we're willing.

[01:47:20:22 - 01:47:33:20]
Fairlie
 with coexistence, with protecting wildlife, with protecting ecosystems, people. There's the same thing in Africa between the communities and the elephants. You've got people that live in poverty situations

[01:47:33:20 - 01:47:43:20]
Fairlie
 difference is they are willing to work together with the conservation organizations to find an acceptable solution

[01:47:43:20 - 01:47:45:23]
Fairlie
 the problem without

[01:47:45:23 - 01:47:47:19]
Fairlie
 being part of it.

[01:47:48:20 - 01:47:51:14]
Fairlie
 If we could just all come together,

[01:47:51:14 - 01:47:54:14]
Fairlie
 find a way to come together. I like that, Farrah.

[01:47:54:14 - 01:48:02:10]
Stacy
 I like the word willing. I think that's a powerful-- It's all about willing. Just that simple crack

[01:48:02:10 - 01:48:05:06]
Stacy
 being willing.

[01:48:05:06 - 01:48:14:09]
John B
 If we don't try, it's never going to happen. Nothing's going to change. It will get worse. You started out this podcast with

[01:48:16:01 - 01:48:23:01]
John B
 Through this hour and a half, we've been able to discuss this and definitely throw some ideas around

[01:48:23:01 - 01:48:25:08]
John B
 how this might manifest itself.

[01:48:27:02 - 01:48:27:12]
John B
 I am excited

[01:48:27:12 - 01:48:29:04]
John B
 we have this conversation because

[01:48:29:04 - 01:48:30:20]
John B
 is hope itself.

[01:48:32:15 - 01:48:34:19]
John B
 It isn't going to happen by accident.

[01:48:36:05 - 01:48:39:08]
John B
 All of us, both of you, are

[01:48:39:08 - 01:48:54:17]
John B
 to reach out into the community and fund these very important projects that will bring awareness, will open some eyes. Most importantly, I believe, is hearts. There has to be some emotional connection for people to this.

[01:48:54:17 - 01:49:02:23]
John B
 Just the simple fact that these animals have characters, personalities, let's open the door for that.

[01:49:02:23 - 01:49:04:17]
John B
 bring some of that emotion

[01:49:04:17 - 01:49:10:12]
John B
 our audiences and to the general public so they can see that there's some truth here.

[01:49:10:12 - 01:49:15:16]
Stacy
 Empathy. Yeah, and connection with individuals just like us.

[01:49:15:16 - 01:49:33:04]
Fairlie
 thank you so much for being here and sharing your time with us. It's been awesome. And I really hope down the road that you would be willing to come back and share more stories and beautiful films and photographs with us at a later date.

[01:49:36:12 - 01:49:38:17]
John B
 I always have a camera close by.

[01:49:39:12 - 01:49:45:01]
John B
 You just never know what you're going to encounter. You know, so.

[01:49:45:01 - 01:49:49:03]
Stacy
 Thank you so much, John. And thank you for sharing what you do and who

[01:49:49:03 - 01:49:52:06]
Stacy
 and inspiration for the future.

[01:49:53:00 - 01:50:18:19]
Fairlie
 What John reminds us is that coexistence isn't some faraway dream. It's happening right here, right often just beyond our fences or under the same sky that we're sleeping beneath. The truth is our wildlife, our animal neighbors are still out there trying to live their lives, raise their young and survive in this shrinking space we all share. They don't need our fear, they need our understanding, they need space, respect and a voice.

[01:50:19:20 - 01:51:02:23]
Fairlie
 So wherever you live, whether it's a city block, a desert canyon or the edge of a forest, look around, listen, learn who your wild neighbors are and do one small thing this week to protect them. Because when we protect wildlife we're also protecting ourselves, the air we breathe, the water we drink and the wildness that keeps our hearts beating. I'm Fairly Arrow and thanks for listening to On the Wild Edge. Also want to shout out thank you Stacey James from Dazzle Africa for joining me on this episode. If this story moved you, share it and join us in protecting our wildlife, our wild spaces and the fragile balance that makes this planet home. See you on the next one.